Interview
Nicholas Deml
Commissioner of the Vermont Department of Corrections
For Commissioner Nicholas Deml, corrections is at a crossroads, where he is determined to steer the Vermont correctional system toward a smarter, more sustainable future. In this conversation, he challenges traditional prison management models and explores how Vermont is rethinking everything — from staffing strategies to facility design — to create a system that is both effective and humane.
We discuss the design of the state’s new women’s facility, efforts to address healthcare challenges in prisons, and the role of education and community partnerships in improving reentry outcomes.
Could you outline the Vermont Department of Corrections’ current primary goals and how they reflect your overall vision for corrections in the state?
ND: In Vermont, we are rethinking how corrections is done. Our goal is to develop approaches that work for our state and, hopefully, offer ideas that can be shared more broadly.
A key focus is addressing the staffing crisis we are facing — something that’s true not just in Vermont but across the U.S. This challenge is largely driven by demographics: our workforce is aging, fewer people are entering the job market. In these circumstances, the traditional way of running corrections
isn’t really sustainable anymore.
We need to find ways to do our work and achieve our goals effectively with fewer staff. Before joining the Department of Corrections, I worked as an intelligence officer, where we used to call this tradecraft. We need to rethink the tradecraft of how corrections works. That includes leveraging technology, changing operational practices, rethinking how we staff facilities, and even redesigning the physical infrastructure of facilities.
Another major focus is the health and well-being of the people in our custody. We have been observing – particularly coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic – a significant decline in our population’s health. Our prison population is aging, and facing more complex health issues, and sicker overall.
We have adopted an approach factoring in social determinants of health — assessing other factors that influence overall well-being beyond medical care, and trying to address them. Our basic premise is simple: if people leave our system healthier than when they entered, they’re more likely to succeed when they return to their communities.
Lastly, we are focused on modernising the entire system.
Our newest facility is 25 years old, and the oldest is 70. These buildings were not designed for how we operate today and effectively hold us back.
We are also falling behind on technology compared to other parts of society.
On top of that, we are re-examining our practices to ensure they reflect the best national and international standards. Where they don’t, we are committed to developing and implementing
improvements here in Vermont.
Vermont is replacing the Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility with a new Women’s Facility. Could you share the challenges that the current facility presents and what prompted the decision to pursue a replacement?
ND: The current women’s facility in Vermont is a perfect example of how systems are basically contorting themselves to the infrastructure that we have today.
The facility was built in the late 1960s, originally designed as a men’s detention centre. Yet today, we are using it as a women’s prison. It is not designed to support the way we want to manage the population. There’s not enough infirmary space, not enough room for programming, and the infrastructure itself is
deteriorating and either needs to be replaced or is behind on deferred maintenance.
We know there are better ways to design facilities that are both therapeutic and effective for women.
We have looked at Scandinavian models, as well as closer to home in our neighbour State Maine, who has a cutting edge women’s detention and re-entry facilities. Our goal is for this new women’s facility to be a flagship example — a demonstration of how corrections can be done differently when the infrastructure is built to support modern practices.
Could you discuss the main principles guiding the design and planning of the new facility to better meet the needs of incarcerated women?
ND: If you walk into the Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility today, it looks like what most people imagine when they think of a prison — concrete walls, steel doors, bars, loud environments, and very little natural light. We want to move away from that model entirely and bring in a therapeutic design that is gender responsive and trauma informed. We want to draw from natural elements, especially natural light, and use materials that create a healthier environment. Today, there are safe alternatives to traditional prison materials—for example, using wood doors instead of steel.
Another key principle is decoupling populations within the facility. The new design will have two distinct structures on one site. One will be a secure environment for people serving sentences or in pre-trial detention, with dedicated spaces for programming, healthcare, and mental health services — areas
where we currently face challenges in Vermont. We also want to use our staffing resources as efficiently as possible, designing the facility so it requires fewer staff to operate effectively.
The second structure will be a re-entry facility, with no locks on the doors. People will be able to leave during the day for work, medical appointments, or to go see a treatment provider. It will follow more of a self-governed model, with easy access to the outdoors.
We have seen the success of these models both in the U.S. and around the world, and that’s the direction we are moving towards.
JT: Your commitment to evidence-based policy has been supported by the Prison Research and Innovation Network.
How has this partnership influenced the department’s strategies in the last 5 years, and with the initiative concluding in 2024, how does the Department plan to continue leveraging research and data to drive improvements in corrections?
ND: This was a pivotal partnership involving the Urban Institute, which is a think tank in Washington DC, the University of Vermont, and the Department of Corrections. It allowed us to study our system closely and create innovation groups to help drive meaningful changes. Staff at all levels, along with our incarcerated population, were part of this process, and I think it marked a turning point for us. It solidified our commitment to becoming a data-driven organisation.
Through this work, we conducted in-depth research on our population, staff, and system, which led to several innovations. For example, we launched multiple Honor Units where people live in self-governed environments without constant correctional officer presence. In the facility where this initiative took place, individuals from the Honor Unit even created a business model and opened a coffee shop that serves both staff and the incarcerated population. So the model created opportunities for people to learn job skills, business planning, and engage in meaningful activities.
This combination of evidence-based research and design, and an emphasis on trying new ideas has become the foundation of much of the work we are doing in Vermont today.
Are there other planned or ongoing initiatives or technology implementations that embody this commitment to modernisation and rehabilitation?
ND: One of the interesting things we have taken on in the last couple of years is a partnership with our Community College of Vermont, which operates as a constellation of community and technical colleges across the state.
With support from a federal grant, we are now providing free Community College education to every incarcerated individual in Vermont and every staff member in the Department of Corrections.
We know that education is key to success. People who receive education while incarcerated are more likely to find stable jobs and succeed after release. That’s why we’ve made it a priority to get as many educational resources into our system as possible. But it’s not just for the incarcerated population; we also wanted staff to benefit from this programme. In fact, staff can pass on their educational vouchers to their dependents, like their children or spouses.
For individuals leaving our facilities, the programme continues to support them as they can attend the Community College of Vermont for up to a year after release. Ideally, once they are connected with that system, they can pursue further education beyond that. We are really excited about the impact this can have.
Another area we are focused on is addressing substance use disorders, which is a major challenge here in Vermont and the northeastern U.S.. While the Department of Corrections provides medication and treatment, we realised we might not be the best resource for guiding people through recovery. So, we partnered with a community-based organisation to provide peer recovery coaching — people who are in recovery themselves come into our facilities to support others on their recovery journey.
The beauty of this programme is that when someone is released, their peer recovery coach is still there for them in the community, providing continuity of support. We have essentially built a pipeline from our facilities to this peer recovery network outside. We are also exploring the idea of establishing a dedicated treatment facility, where individuals can progress through different stages of substance use treatment and recovery based on their specific needs. We are eyeing those opportunities, and I think that’s the next body of work we need to push forward on.
As part of forward-thinking committees and meetings within the Correctional Leaders Association, how do these collaborations shape your vision for the future of corrections in Vermont? What long-term goals and priorities do you see for the broader U.S. correctional system?
ND: I have really leaned into the Correctional Leaders Association. I currently sit on the Executive Committee and I chair the Restrictive Housing Committee. I took on these roles because Vermont has gained so much from being part of this organisation.
I see CLA as an incubator for ideas—a space where we can exchange challenges and solutions with other states, hear about what’s worked and what hasn’t, and learn from both successes and setbacks. It’s also a place where we can bring industry experts to help tackle some of the toughest problems facing corrections today, problems we’re certainly dealing with here in Vermont.
CLA helps systems like ours strategize around big issues, like the staffing crisis that’s affecting nearly every state. They are working to elevate the profession, highlight the important work correctional staff do, and advocate for investments from organisations like the U.S. Department of Justice and philanthropic groups that are committed to advancing the justice system and improving it.
For me, the value of CLA comes down to this: sit and be receivers of our fate, or we can be the architects in shaping the future. We can design the systems we want to see. CLA is at the centre of that effort, helping move the profession and correctional systems forward to achieve better outcomes.
Nicholas Deml
Commissioner of the Vermont Department of Corrections
Nicholas J. Deml has served as the Commissioner of the Vermont Department of Corrections since November 2021. He is an active member of the Correctional Leaders Association (CLA), serves on the CLA Executive Committee, and chairs its Restrictive Housing Committee. Prior to joining the Department of Corrections, Commissioner Deml served as a clandestine service intelligence officer at the CIA. He also worked in the U.S. Senate as a national security staffer and as an aide on the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee. He holds a JD from Marquette University Law School and a BA in political science from Southern Illinois University.
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